Bleeding Profoundly

Bleeding Profoundly I am; a parent, a trans man, a polyamorous pansexual, married to a man, in love, living with chronic pain and fatigue, fighting depression and anxiety, an insomniac, an artist, a dreamer, looking for happiness, a feminist, an amateur philosopher, politically active and aware, interested in serious debates about any and all serious topics, following my own code of honor, otherkin, honest, thinking of baking something, a lazy poster, extremely tired, a fan of facts and information in general, and about a thousand other things...

Posts tagged nonhuman

Reblogged from jarandhel

jarandhel:

This is basically what I tell everyone who believes we’re “killing the planet” or anything along those lines.  Or, conversely, who believes that we need to “heal the planet” - usually involving feel-good rituals and Reiki.  Our planet is so much bigger, older, and stronger than that.  Nature bigger, older, and stronger still - nature encompasses the whole damn cosmos, not just our little speck of it.  Sometimes we have to step outside of the narrow, self-centered human perspective and see our actions and their results in the proper scale.

I’m trying to follow as many Otherkin and ‘Kin-related blogs as possible. Reblog this if you’re one of them! :)

Reblogged from jarandhel

jarandhel:

I’m one of them.  In case you need evidence of that, and that I’m not simply a troll, I run Dreamhart.org, AnOtherWiki, and a number of otherkin mailing lists as well as the Northern Virginia Otherkin Meetup.

Otherkin and the Media

Reblogged from jarandhel

jarandhel:

Given the recent Gawker and Totally Dublin articles, and the fact that I’ve received a new email regarding a TV series, I’m just going to repost a portion of my Revised Otherkin FAQ here:

Last, steer clear of the media.  I can’t emphasize this enough, steer clear of the media.  I don’t care how sympathetic and understanding the reporter sounds, or how big a chance it is to finally get our side of the story told, it *never* actually works out that way.  You will get manipulated, you will get misquoted, and the otherkin community will be treated in a manner that is sensationalist rather than serious.  Just say no when it comes to participating in any form of media on the basis of your Otherness.  And that goes triple for “Reality TV” of any kind.  That said, if you absolutely positively cannot avoid giving an interview, here’s some advice on do’s and dont’s from the vampire community, the pagan community, and even the furry community.

One of the reasons I think kin should keep away from media in general is because, to be perfectly honest, most of ‘em are people I would NEVER want speaking “for” me.
There’s far too many otherkin who’re eager to become the posterchild for “functional” otherkin and most of ‘em are not entirely functional.

Heck… there’s certain individuals who are “self proclaimed” leaders of “the” otherkin community which I honestly would rather see just generally shut up completely… about anything… let alone kin.

Otherkin [tw:animal killing]

Reblogged from jarandhel

jarandhel:

itzocelotl:

I am sure this post is going to be very unwelcome.  I am also sure that it needs to be said and that I don’t care.

Let’s talk about Otherkin, people with nonhuman souls in (mostly) human bodies.  I first became aware of Otherkin through House Eclipse, a local vampire and Otherkin house.  I have personally known demonkin, angelkin, elementals, therians, Fae, Darkfae, elves, fictionkin and even a couple dragonkin and multiple systems.  Of those, the ones I respect the most are those who are who they are in spite of WHAT they are or what is or is not wrong with them.

  For example, some people are Diabetic with a capital D, and constantly bemoan not being able to eat ice cream, make a huge deal out of their hypoglycemic swings and accuse others of eating in front of the just to make them miserable.  Others wear a medic alert bracelet, politely turn down cookies at parties, check their sugar, watch their diet and will talk openly about diabetes if asked but don’t make a fuss about it unless it is medically necessary.  They carry glucose gel, drink lots of water, wear breathable clothes and live their lives without making their condition everyone’s business.

We have a choice as Otherkin.  We can be like Lobo, a former associate of mine who is a wolf therian.  He ate raw steaks and hamburger patties in public with the predictable intestinal results (that poor bathroom) snapped his teeth at waiters, howled in malls (and got kicked out of them) and eventually was kicked out of House Eclipse.  Not because of his Therianthropy but because he was and admitted to be able to control himself and chose not to.  On the other hand, our other wolf Rob has a good day job as a secretary, bathes, functions, and keeps his Wolf side to himself unless he is in private (see his article on House Eclipse written as “Robziel”). 

Self discipline is within the purview of any Otherkin.  Sure, ADD makes it harder to meditate but my mother, who has that diagnosis, taught herself in spite of that and clinical depression.  I have clinical depression and spent 15 years in therapy, take my daily medicines and watch myself to make sure they still work.  I too learned to meditate and control my breathing and heartbeat.  Anyone can if they want to badly enough and stop making excuses.  I am a sang vampire and a phlebotomist, which is a huge test of self control.  It took me a while…as a teen I bit some of my lovers badly, got sick when I tried not feeding, let my Hunger dictate friendship choices and got sucked into the drama of the vampire community.  On the other hand, local older vampires taught me to control myself, ignoring my outbursts or restraining me if I did something stupid in public, such as at local nightclubs.  I got caught feeding once by a thankfully open minded boss which taught me to be more discreet.  I went into phlebotomy as a safer way to get blood and to learn how to read test results and take care of my donors.

Later I learned that while donor blood is great and all, it is not always reliable.  If your donor gets sick, you leave them alone to heal.  In that time I started using animal blood from feeder rats.  That is not enough, even if you take all the blood from a rat, so now I use meat rabbits.  I feed them well, take care of them and drain one every week and a half or so.  The meat can be sold or kept for my use, and the manure goes on my garden.

Here I expect horrified comments.  How dare I kill cute little bunnies to drink them?  Easy.  I take care of them, and they are prey animals, raised and kept for the purpose of being eaten.  I am an omnivore and feel that by ensuring that the rabbits are kept well and free of drugs, I am giving them a decent life until they are eaten.  These rabbits are not wild, they are livestock.  I feel no shame for the meat, eggs and milk I eat (even though male calves die so that female cows can be milked).  This is my role in nature and I am content with it.

Let’s talk for a moment about self discipline and being Otherkin.  I really don’t care what your kintype is, self control and the ability to function in everyday society without sticking out like the proverbial sore thumb are super important.  I personally cannot take anyone seriously who has not spent time working on both of these.  For example if a Psivamp tells me that they are an Elder and super powerful, that means that they had better be able to shield, keep themselves from feeding inappropriately, drop into a decent trance in around 10 minutes and astrally project at will.  They should be able to fine tune their feeding to be able to drain only emotional energy from a specific emotion, such as fear.  They can also hide their need for energy and avoid feeding on those who cannot afford to lose energy such as in hospitals.  Beyond that, they should have been doing daily meditation for at least four years.  If you cannot say that, then you are not an elder Psivamp.


Too often I hear crap like, “Oh I can do magic.  I don’t read books on it or know any theory, or do daily practice, but I know what I am doing.” Nope.  Either you have a direct mentor or your read everything in sight and either way you learn self control and self discipline.  If you cannot control your Other nature, you are a menace and make the rest of us look bad, as well as embarassing yourself.  The point is to function and fit in when we have to and not to have everyone stare and point due to not having the equivalent of mental potty training.

It bothers me when people like Lobo or that idiot Don Henrie make the online community look bad by being apparently unable to make their Otherkin Selves a part of who they are instead of the whole of who they are.  Like the diabetic in my earlier analogy, they shape their entire identity around one facet of themselves.  By all means, develop your Otherkin side, but don’t forget what Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki said in “The Ritual Magic Workbook” about the Hearthfire path.  For those who have not read it, she says (to paraphrase) that home, family and finances should be in order and taken care of before you seek the Mysteries with a full mind and heart.  That does not mean that you cannot have an illness, mental or physical and not do magic or whatever.  It does mean that you have to be treating it and taking care of it to the fullest of your abilities before you go harping off onto the path of Enlightenment and NOT using it as an excuse as to why you neglect personal hygiene or daily responsibilities. 

Sunlight hurts me.  I sunburn in under half an hour and heat exhaust even faster.  So I got my EMT-Basic certification to learn to take care of myself or other vampires or other people in general who get sick.  I wear a cotton gauze robe to allow airflow while blocking out some sunlight and keep my skin covered.  I still work a day job but keep the blinds closed in my office.  I wear welding glasses to protect my eyes more than regular sunglasses.  I do not whine at my boss and say I cannot work day shift; in the current economy they would just replace me.  I find ways to work around my condition.  I try to keep well fed and my primary donor helps me with that.

The trick is to work within society so that we don’t all come off as delusional jackasses.  Not to go around nightclubs biting people with fake fangs and giving them tetanus or cellulitis, but to use a lancet type device on a finger tip (able to be purchased and used by anyone, I can link you to medical warehouse sites to buy them).  For my Dark Fae friend, he uses his ability with machines to work with intelligent lighting at a nightclub.  I know a vampire in Italy who is an anesthesiologist and uses his skills to draw blood in units from willing donors.  I know another wolf Therian who is a paramedic.  He uses his bursts of strength to lift patients and his sense Shifting to smell problems with kidneys and other organs or bacteria in urine.  We can work in normal jobs and even excel at them.

We are not better or worse than NonKin, just different.  I feel that we should learn to work within society, not make society cater to us.

I’m just going to add a link to the House Eclipse site which my roommate mentioned here: http://www.house-eclipse.org 

The specific article which was mentioned by Robziel can be found here: http://www.house-eclipse.org/wordpress/the-care-and-feeding-of-werewolves/

Otherkin….

Reblogged from jarandhel

jarandhel:

miniar:

I’d offer to pitch in but I’m stretched pretty thin as is. 
If I had more energy.

Totally understood.  I’m at my personal limit on taking on new projects myself.

It seems to be the case with those willing to do good.. they end up overloaded. :/

Supernumerary phantom limbs have been documented in the scientific literature.  Phantom limbs are not solely an experience of amputees.  And studies have been done with supernumerary phantom limbs which show that the brain does register the sensation of touch when they are used.

I stand corrected… 
Got a link though? For curiosity’s sake.  

Have a few:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.21647/abstract;jsessionid=15F3C756CE66F7DAF63255B92CBD9654.d03t04

http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/56/2/159.short

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/125/6/1265.short

Cool, thanks… 

mind you, these appear to focus on the extra phantom-limbs as a result of stroke, but it would be interesting to see if the same would apply to non-stroke-related extra limbs… 

It’s… Well, dysphoria as used for trans people is referencing a certain symptom of a certain thing. It’s more specific than “the sniffles”.
It’s… more like a reference to a certain sort of pain stemming from a certain source. As if the pain felt from a broken leg was called a gugog. Now, the pain felt from a headache is pain, but it might not be “gugog” pain… 
… I’m wording this terribly I’m sure.

I don’t think dysphoria, as used in gender identity contexts, is any more specific than dysphoria as used in otherkin contexts. If it were, one would hardly need to specify one was experiencing “gender dysphoria”.  The term dysphoria, by its nature, would suffice.

Fair enough… 

Rubbish explanations aside, like I said…. the word has it’s use.
What I oppose is the suggestion that the experience is the same…. which I’ve seen a lot lately. 

Now that, I can agree with to some extent, though I’d be hard pressed to tell someone who was experiencing dysphoria based on what gender they are and someone who was experiencing dysphoria based on what species they are how those experiences differ exactly.  Particularly if the same person is experiencing both and says they are the same, for them.  Using your gugog example, it’d be a little like telling someone that the pain in their broken right leg was gugog but the pain in their broken left leg couldn’t possibly be gugog.

Very often I’ve seen dysphoria be used by (mostly tumblr) otherkin to refer to the experience that their limbs aren’t “in sync” with their phantom limbs. That is to say, they feel “weird” that their fingers don’t have massive talons or somesuch, or that their feet have toes or whatever… 
This is not how I see trans* people use the term.
Most often, when it comes to trans* people, they are referring to it as the crippling, overwhelming sense of “wrong” with their bodies. To trans* people, dysphoria isn’t a sensation of “weirdness” or even “discomfort” but an overwhelmingly painful sensation, emotionally, psychologically and physically.
I have body-weirdness, as in feeling too tall, like “I” don’t reach to the ends of my physical limbs, resulting in days when I bang toes and fingers into things because I’m out of sync and unable to muster the concentration to compensate. My gender dysphoria is something different. There were days when I’d have to consciously avoid any and all contact with my physical self, and avoid places where there were sharp instruments because the feeling of wrongness was so overwhelming that I couldn’t trust myself not to take these sharp instruments to my flesh, to the parts that were just plain wrong. Not uncomfortable, not weird, not “not quite right”, not “doesn’t fit”, but wrong, just plain wrong. 
And when I see otherkin refer to their dysphoria as being “like” that of trans people, because their arms aren’t wings and this makes ‘em “uncomfortable” it’s.. well.. it’s insulting to me. Because when I’d catch a glimpse at my chest in the mirror I’d sometimes be hard pressed not to break down into tears, not because I was “uncomfortable” but because the reaction was one of visceral pain and abject horror. Because what I saw wasn’t “not me” but because it was me… but “wrong”.

There’s also this conversation involved that I’ve often seen among kin that I’ve never seen in trans* circles. The “if you could choose your kintype” conversation (or variants there-of). Otherkin that somehow are able to imagine being something other than what they are. There’s never this question among trans* people, the ability to imagine not being trans* or being of another gender identity isn’t there.
I’ve also never seen trans* people change their gender identity the way otherkin sometimes do. You know what I mean, the “kintype of the week” sort of folk. Trans* people can take time to figure themselves out, but a trans* person’s pronoun preference doesn’t change every couple of weeks.

The suggestion, which I’ve seen often on tumblr, that otherkin’s species dysphoria is comparable to a trans* person’s gender dysphoria is therefore similarily ridiculous to me as saying that a broken leg pain is comparable to the pain of an average headache. 

Mind you… I could be in the wrong here. 
There’s no way for one human being to “know” the pain of another human being.
I’ll admit that much.
It’s just… It feels preposterous to me, probably due to my own experiences, to suggest that the two are alike.  

We believe these things, that is a fact… but a lot of people believe things which have been demonstrated false, and if they expect their beliefs to be treated as just as valid as scientifically proven things, then we think they’re being fucking assholes, and idiots to boot.

Not saying our experiences are false, but saying that we “believe” and that belief and fact are not the same thing.

My point was that there are two separate things involved with being otherkin.  The experiences, which are simply fact, and the beliefs we develop about those experiences.

I’ve probably spent too much time reading philosophy and psychology, specifically regarding various perception biases and so on, but my mind simply went “but… experience can’t be considered fact…”

That is to say, our perceptions are so flawed, so manipulable, and our memories so much more so, that it’s almost impossible for me to even consider my own memories of experiences in general to be even remotely factually accurate. Which is why I write, a lot. I keep notes, thoughts jotted down, things documented and collected, with as much detail as I can muster at the time.

The only thing I can consider “factual” is that we believe…. 

‘Course not!

I’m not a troll.
I’ve friends who consider themselves trolls, and honestly, while I usually disapprove of their tactic, I can understand where they come from when they troll Otherkin. They’re all kin themselves, they’re just fucking sick and tired of other otherkin to the point where they can’t help but to prod the worst cesspools of idiocy for laughs, the alternative to them is to just leave anything otherkin, turn their backs, and try to never look back…. 

I find otherkin trolling otherkin to be fairly unhelpful.  It really doesn’t change the minds of those so trolled.  Usually, it makes them dig in and defend themselves.  They become more entrenched in their positions, and point out the evils of their “persecutors”.  So I’d say trolling has a net negative effect on the community, even when done by other ‘kin for the “right” reasons.

Which is part and parcel of why I don’t condone that behavior.
I do understand the root cause though, and these folks are generally good people, and don’t tend to troll that often, to be honest, so I don’t forgo the friendship I have with them even if I don’t always agree with them. 

Since we’re veering a touch off topic to begin with, I’m reminded of a study that dad brought to my attention. (My biological father, that is, not to be confused with someone I sometimes jokingly refer to as “dad”.)
Apparently, a debate doesn’t necessarily change people’s minds. In fact, the more intelligent a person is, the less likely they are to change their minds through debates, even if information is added, but instead become more entrenched in their already formed opinion, even if invalid. Though this is likely a result of the opinion being formed on some solid ground and so the debate is a way to reinforce the opinion by revisiting what solid ground it’s formed on.

I find minds fascinating…  

Oh man. I finally figured out why so many tumblr ‘kin annoy the hell out of me.

Reblogged from jarandhel

cruelfeline:

And I’m putting it under a cut because lord knows y’all don’t care about this.  But it is cathartic for me, so TA DA.

Also, I’m going to actually tag it.  Because I feel like living dangerously.

Read More

Otherkin….

Reblogged from arudem

arudem:

Before I start, I’d like to give a little award to you: this is one of the two only intelligent arguments I’ve ever had, on the ‘net, concerning Otherkin.

You need better haunts then. A few forums I’ve been a member off throughout the years have an emphasis of keeping debates on topic and knowing the difference between disagreements and attacks. 

Alright.

Have they proclaimed themselves community leaders?
Have they inserted themselves into discussions and debates with shit-flinging, self-righteous, narcissistic drivel?
If no, then I must not have been referring to them, have I?

Fair enough. Who were you referring to? Implication without facts is not an argument. Those were the only community leaders I could think of that I have data about.

To be honest, the reason I did not mention names is that I don’t want to give certain individuals any more attention than they already have because they simply thrive on it, and should they catch wind of their name being mentioned they’d probably love the potential to make a big display of crying about how someone evil, me specifically, doesn’t show them the respect they (so staunchly claim) they deserve. 

“A phantom limb is an area of the body that does not exist physically, that the brain receives signals from. Just because we’re saying that we have them, isn’t saying that amputees don’t.”

This point is a straw man.
I made no such statement.

I’m not responding only to you, but also to the literally hundreds of others who have made this point. But fair enough.

You also continually refer to the “fact” that there is no neurostructural distinction between Otherkin and other people. Actually, there is simply an utter lack of research on this topic, and no facts whatsoever. 

I did not say that they could’t be different, but that they couldn’t have “non-human” neurological structure. 
There’s theoretical possibility they may have some atypical neurological structure, but it will be human… you know.. cause it’s in a human brain. 

Also, on what Jarandhel said: I never accused you of trolling. I said that you use the same arguments as some beings who ALSO troll, and that those arguments were uninformed.

I didn’t say I was called a troll, I said that these may seem like arguments “from” a troll, which you referred to ‘em as being “the same as”, but this doesn’t make the arguments uninformed…. even when they come from a troll. 

(Source: miniar)

Otherkin….

Reblogged from jarandhel

jarandhel:

miniar:


Secondly, there isn’t such a thing as “the” otherkin community (aside from the forum that uses that name). There are several communities, many of which that purposely seperate themselves from any dissent or disagreeing voice what so ever.
So it’s effectively impossible for “the” otherkin community as a whole to rise up and call out every claim of oppression.

At this point, that’s largely true.  The community fractured, years ago, and the fracture has been getting worse - particularly with Otherkin.net having key features such as listing mailing ilsts and gathers stop working for a few years, though now it’s fully operational again.  With Dreamhart.org and AnOtherWiki I’ve tried to pick up some of the slack and help connect the various communities/make people aware of what groups, lists, etc are out there already but it’s a lot of work for one person and I haven’t had much in the way of help yet.  I’m also quite sure that I don’t know all of the various factions which have formed, and where they hang out, though I try to keep broadly informed.

I’d offer to pitch in but I’m stretched pretty thin as is. 
If I had more energy.

However, it’s uncertain whether “phantom limb” is an appropriate term for the otherkin experience as far as I see it, due to the glaring differences between the phantom limbs of amputees, and the “phantom limbs” of otherkin.
Namely, the difference between disrupted neurological signals and spiritual belief.

There is no reason to believe that our brains get a neurological signal from a pair of wings, for example, as they aren’t connected to our nervous system. 

Supernumerary phantom limbs have been documented in the scientific literature.  Phantom limbs are not solely an experience of amputees.  And studies have been done with supernumerary phantom limbs which show that the brain does register the sensation of touch when they are used.

I stand corrected… 
Got a link though? For curiosity’s sake.  

Dysphoria, as a transgender topic, refers to the this discordance, yes, but the prevailing theory of gender dissonance is the theory of brain gender, one that has considerable evidence behind it at this time.
The dysphoria then being a symptom of what happens when the neurological structures of the brain that control gender identity do not match the physical sex of the person involved.
It is impossible to have the neurological structure of a non-human being as a human being on account of being a human being.

I fail to see the logic in which using the term dysphoria (a symptom) would be come appropriative based on differing underlying causes.  Is someone with the flu appropriating the experience of someone with the common cold because they both have the sniffles? 

It’s… Well, dysphoria as used for trans people is referencing a certain symptom of a certain thing. It’s more specific than “the sniffles”.
It’s… more like a reference to a certain sort of pain stemming from a certain source. As if the pain felt from a broken leg was called a gugog. Now, the pain felt from a headache is pain, but it might not be “gugog” pain… 
… I’m wording this terribly I’m sure.

Rubbish explanations aside, like I said…. the word has it’s use.
What I oppose is the suggestion that the experience is the same…. which I’ve seen a lot lately. 

Never the less, these two terms are not the only ones that don’t quite work for me and in fact I can see the use of these terms, so it’s not these that I refer to specifically with my broad statement.

Fair enough.

The terms that most bother me include, for example, Disassociative Identity Disorder. That is to say, when a person, believing that they are, for spiritual reasons (walk-ins, group reincarnation, etc) multiple souls in one body, decide to refer to themselves as having DID (without any qualified diagnosis involved) rather than multiple. These people often even begin championing on behalf of people with DID to be considered “normal”, failing to understand the clinical definition of “disorder” at all.

I haven’t seen this much among the multiples I know.  Is there a particular section of the community that’s become involved in this?  I do think that, especially here on tumblr, multiples have forgotten that it used to be about *empowered* multiplicity.  About *positive* plurality.  Back in the day, even trauma-based multiples were quite emphatic about distinguishing their experiences of multiplicity from MPD or DID precisely because of the clinical definition of “disorder.”

I’ve been seeing this more and more lately, admittedly it’s mostly on Tumblr, but it’s far too fucking common and it’s far too fucking disgusting for me to go “oh, okay”… 
So yeah… otherkin are being a bag of dicks with words too…  

Actually, I think I pointed out that I don’t “know” that it’s not “made up”.
I pointed out that being otherkin is about a belief.
An improvable belief that we aren’t 100% human.

We can show, through neurological research, that there’s some proof suggesting that transgender people really are who they say they are, who they feel they are.
We can not show that angels even existed, at all, ever, anywhere.
We can not show that elves even existed, at all, ever, anywhere.
We can no more prove our being otherkin than we can prove the existence of any god.

We “believe”.
There’s a difference between facts and beliefs.
Yes, our beliefs have shaped us, become irremovable parts of “who we are” but they haven’t become factual truths as to what we are in the process.

That’s the difference. 

I would point out the distinction between what we experience (memories, dysphoria, etc) and what we believe regarding those experiences (reincarnation, psychological, etc).  Certainly, there are some who are faking and do not have genuine experiences but for many (hopefully the majority) the experiences are a fact. 

We believe these things, that is a fact… but a lot of people believe things which have been demonstrated false, and if they expect their beliefs to be treated as just as valid as scientifically proven things, then we think they’re being fucking assholes, and idiots to boot.

Not saying our experiences are false, but saying that we “believe” and that belief and fact are not the same thing. 
 

We have to use the closest appropriate term, in such a way that shows we understand the term we use. This doesn’t mean not using words because others are using them, that is not at all what I am saying, but to use our words accurately, or as accurately as we can. (Which, ironically enough, I know I have failed to some extent, but I am able to admit that and reword, clarify, and apologize where appropriate.)

That I can certainly agree with. 

Have they proclaimed themselves community leaders?
Have they inserted themselves into discussions and debates with shit-flinging, self-righteous, narcissistic drivel?
If no, then I must not have been referring to them, have I?

In other words, this right there is another strawman.
Jarandhel and I have been around the same circles a few times.
Been a while since we spoke to one another, but last I remember, our conversations were of mutual respect, so yeah, I… oh, and just now, since I felt the need to look ‘em up, just to see when we last spoke… well, what do you know, your example of a respectable, helpful leader of the community agrees with me….  

Heh, to be fair I think at least one or two of the other folks listed will vehemently disagree with me.  I’m always amused to see Tsu and myself lumped together in lists like this, when our approaches to the community could not be more different.  In fact, I’d personally say that Tsu has done more than any other single individual I know of to promote/enable/apologize for the aspects of tumblr otherkin culture which I find most harmful. 

You may think that this is arguments from trolls, but you might wanna take a look around, and see how “uninformed” some of these arguments really are. The evidence is all around you.  

Also, just because people are trolling doesn’t mean they can’t make valid arguments.  It simply means that they won’t care about valid responses to those arguments because they’re not in it for actual debate - they’re in it “for the lulz”.  You may make similar arguments to what Arudem’s seen elsewhere, but you’re not trolling in doing so.

‘Course not!
I’m not a troll.
I’ve friends who consider themselves trolls, and honestly, while I usually disapprove of their tactic, I can understand where they come from when they troll Otherkin. They’re all kin themselves, they’re just fucking sick and tired of other otherkin to the point where they can’t help but to prod the worst cesspools of idiocy for laughs, the alternative to them is to just leave anything otherkin, turn their backs, and try to never look back…. 

Otherkin….

Reblogged from arudem

arudem:

miniar:

So.. where do I begin?

I am otherkin, at least by the definition of he term, as far as I understand it… and this is a problematic thing to be.
Not because of other people, but because of other otherkin. 

You see, most of the other otherkin I’ve met on the world wide web are self-important, self-obsessed, arrogant dick-heads.
They don’t just behave poorly, they behave less than poorly and they expect the whole world to bend over backwards to reward them for it, and when it doesn’t they cry foul, oppression, even “racism”.
They use and abuse terminology that doesn’t belong to them and they’ll go out of their way to justify it whenever questioned.

In other words, most online otherkin are the sort of people that you’d tell to stop agreeing with you because they’re making your side of the argument look bad.

Of course, this isn’t “all” otherkin I’ve met, but it’s a lot of them, and many of these individuals tend to gravitate towards the same haunts.
Back in the day, the otherkin circle jerk was on the old MSN message boards. It was a cesspool wherein people seemed to race around trying to be the most special, unique, and powerful thing around.
Today, the race has changed, as has the venue. There are still those going for unique and powerful snowflake, but most of today’s “more-otherkin-than-you” racers are focused on how tragic their life today is, because they’re in the wrong body, a human body.

Instead of dealing with life, people wallow in their beliefs.

The asshole otherkin seems to view this not as a “belief” but some undeniable fact of their existence, that they’re essentially trans-species. 
Not that this would do anything really to remove the tarnish from the label, it’s been judged in the court of “public opinion” and decided to be rubbish, largely because “your beliefs are stupid, therefore you’re a sad example of stupid” sort of reactions but in no small part because of whiny, self-righteous otherkin and their reactions there-to, for example; the self-proclaimed “community leaders” that step up to the plate with completely harmful rhetoric, dripping with conceitedness.

bah… 

This is getting long and ranty… 
Here’s the TL;DR version;
I guess I’m otherkin, but I don’t like it, cause otherkin are a big bag of dicks. 

A few points, mostly about that bold section.

No Otherkin or Therian has ever said that we are “oppressed” without being called out at once by the rest of the community.

Actually, this is untrue.
There are several communities and have been in the past, where the proclamations of oppression have been a staple of the circle-jerk.
Secondly, there isn’t such a thing as “the” otherkin community (aside from the forum that uses that name). There are several communities, many of which that purposely seperate themselves from any dissent or disagreeing voice what so ever.
So it’s effectively impossible for “the” otherkin community as a whole to rise up and call out every claim of oppression. 

Terms cannot be appropriated. Words are elements of communication, the building block of memes (I don’t mean Internet memes like “Fus Ro Dah” and such — read Dawkins, “The Selfish Gene”). No being can own them unless the a)made them up and b)trademarked them.

As elements of communication, words are things that have an agreed upon meaning. If we begin using the word table to mean a car, a desk and dinner as well as a table, the word looses it’s meaning, it’s purpose, and becomes useless, because cars, desks and dinner aren’t tables. 
Now, I agree I used flawed wording, but the point still stands.
By taking words that have a specific meaning, one that is established and refers to scientifically documented things, and applying it to unrelated experiences, we are depriving the word of it’s meaning, and depriving the original meaning of the word which was the means of expressing that meaning. 

A phantom limb is an area of the body that does not exist physically, that the brain receives signals from. Just because we’re saying that we have them, isn’t saying that amputees don’t.

This point is a straw man.
I made no such statement.

However, it’s uncertain whether “phantom limb” is an appropriate term for the otherkin experience as far as I see it, due to the glaring differences between the phantom limbs of amputees, and the “phantom limbs” of otherkin.
Namely, the difference between disrupted neurological signals and spiritual belief.

There is no reason to believe that our brains get a neurological signal from a pair of wings, for example, as they aren’t connected to our nervous system. 

Dysphoria and dysmorphia mean, literally, a discordance of selfimage with the physical body. Just because that happens to us doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen to trans* beings, beings with an eating disorder, etc.

Dysphoria, as a transgender topic, refers to the this discordance, yes, but the prevailing theory of gender dissonance is the theory of brain gender, one that has considerable evidence behind it at this time.
The dysphoria then being a symptom of what happens when the neurological structures of the brain that control gender identity do not match the physical sex of the person involved.
It is impossible to have the neurological structure of a non-human being as a human being on account of being a human being.

Never the less, these two terms are not the only ones that don’t quite work for me and in fact I can see the use of these terms, so it’s not these that I refer to specifically with my broad statement.

The terms that most bother me include, for example, Disassociative Identity Disorder. That is to say, when a person, believing that they are, for spiritual reasons (walk-ins, group reincarnation, etc) multiple souls in one body, decide to refer to themselves as having DID (without any qualified diagnosis involved) rather than multiple. These people often even begin championing on behalf of people with DID to be considered “normal”, failing to understand the clinical definition of “disorder” at all. 

The only reason we’d be “invalidating” other beings’s identities by using “their” terms (which they don’t really own - nobody does) was if we were making this all up. You say that you’re otherkin; you should know that it’s not “made up”, but is, in fact, a core aspect of who we are.

Actually, I think I pointed out that I don’t “know” that it’s not “made up”.
I pointed out that being otherkin is about a belief.
An improvable belief that we aren’t 100% human.

We can show, through neurological research, that there’s some proof suggesting that transgender people really are who they say they are, who they feel they are.
We can not show that angels even existed, at all, ever, anywhere.
We can not show that elves even existed, at all, ever, anywhere.
We can no more prove our being otherkin than we can prove the existence of any god.

We “believe”.
There’s a difference between facts and beliefs.
Yes, our beliefs have shaped us, become irremovable parts of “who we are” but they haven’t become factual truths as to what we are in the process.

That’s the difference. 

In addition, what are we supposed to do? We wish to have a discussion about our experiences  We’re trying to use words that others will understand — that’s how language works

We have to use the closest appropriate term, in such a way that shows we understand the term we use. This doesn’t mean not using words because others are using them, that is not at all what I am saying, but to use our words accurately, or as accurately as we can. (Which, ironically enough, I know I have failed to some extent, but I am able to admit that and reword, clarify, and apologize where appropriate.)

In relation to the next-to-last bolded section: It is an undeniable fact of my  existence. However, I don’t really fit the profile of your “asshole Otherkin”.

Already stated this… but it bears repeating;
We “believe”.
There’s a difference between facts and beliefs.
Yes, our beliefs have shaped us, become irremovable parts of “who we are” but they haven’t become factual truths as to what we are in the process.  

Now that last bit: “self proclaimed community leaders”? Are Tsu, Snow, Jarandhel, or Orion Sandstorm “self proclaimed”? No. They earned the community’s respect by producing excellent work, by being helpful, and, well, generally leader-like.

Have they proclaimed themselves community leaders?
Have they inserted themselves into discussions and debates with shit-flinging, self-righteous, narcissistic drivel?
If no, then I must not have been referring to them, have I?

In other words, this right there is another strawman.
Jarandhel and I have been around the same circles a few times.
Been a while since we spoke to one another, but last I remember, our conversations were of mutual respect, so yeah, I… oh, and just now, since I felt the need to look ‘em up, just to see when we last spoke… well, what do you know, your example of a respectable, helpful leader of the community agrees with me….  

TL;DR I guess you’re otherkin, but I don’t like it, because you use all the arguments that completely uninformed “trolls” (for lack of a better term) commonly do. And you offer no evidence.

You may think that this is arguments from trolls, but you might wanna take a look around, and see how “uninformed” some of these arguments really are. The evidence is all around you.  

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